NYCkayaker 5 Boro: Now we need four motor boats
Carter Craft
ccraft at waterwire.net
Tue Sep 4 22:18:54 EDT 2007
thx Jeff I already talked to McBrady who turned me over to another permits guy. All very reasonable concerns, including: they have no map of the route, they have not been given a firm number of paddlers, and this is a first time event. There are other concerns, but those are the main ones. My suggestions to Erik and the other organizers would be ~ a) make a map of the route on a nautical chart. I had hoped to do this tonight but my new operating system can't run the Maptech software I painstakingly downloaded this winter. 2) settle on a max number of official participants by middle of the day tomorrow and let's stick to it 3) commit to having 1 marine radio for every x number of kayakers (five or seven?) 4) designate a Lead and a Sweep kayak who can communicate to the lead safety boat where the pack is and when it passes under bridges or other nautical reference points so this can be communicated to Vessel Traffic Control as needed and 5) choose the most prudent crossing route from Brooklyn to SI since this wide open and heavily trafficked expanse poses the greatest risk. To me this prob means either paddling south along Brooklyn to Pier 4 at 58th St, mustering the group there and paddling en masse across the Harbor, or else mustering just south of Gov Island and timing the crossing to Jersey City, maybe towards the Claremont channel, well south of the Statue tour boat traffic and timed to miss the SI ferry. There may be other ways to address some of these issues, or even other issues entirely that come to mind amongst us or USCG...I'm scheduled to talk again with USCG at 0830 tomorrow, so if you have other ideas or issues please fire away!
Looking fwd to the event,
C
-----Original Message-----
From: "jeff folmsbee" <folmsbee at gmail.com>
Sent: 9/4/07 8:26:16 PM
To: "nyckayaker at rockandwater.net" <nyckayaker at rockandwater.net>, "bob1may at optonline.net" <bob1may at optonline.net>, "Erik Baard" <erik at baard.com>, "Carter Craft" <ccraft at waterwire.net>
Subject: Re: Re: NYCkayaker 5 Boro: Now we need four motor boats
Folks,
Carter may already be all over this, but if you think it would help, I
could try to hook you up with USCG LCDR Mike McBrady, who's in charge
of all things CG on this part of the river, to see if you can cut
through some of these challenges.
best,
Jeff Folmsbee
Hudson River Paddlers Guild
On 9/4/07, jeff folmsbee <placeboentertainment2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- bob1may at optonline.net wrote:
>
> > Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:59:34 +0000 (GMT)
> > From: bob1may at optonline.net
> > To: nyckayaker <nyckayaker at rockandwater.net>
> > Subject: Re: NYCkayaker 5 Boro: Now we need four
> > motor boats
> >
> > The regulations are in 33 CFR 100, subchapter
> >
> Ghttp://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=88a6a1aec9a7b54e3b20037a7e3aa1eb&c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title33/33cfrv1_02.tplThe
> > prevailing theme is "safety of life". The local
> > commander is supposed to ask himself if the event
> > presents "extra or unusual hazards to the safety of
> > life".The local commander is entitled to make
> > "special local regulations" for the event. The term
> > safety boat is not used in the law.The local
> > commander is entitled to detail active duty CG boats
> > to patrol the event if he deems it necessary for
> > safety. Apparently this event does not pose
> > sufficient hazard to the safety of life to warrant
> > that.The local commander is entitled to detail
> > active duty CG officers or petty officers to enforce
> > the special local regulations, such officers to be
> > on board private vessels provided by the organizers
> > for the purpose. Since he apparently hasn't made
> > any plans for officers to ride on the "safety
> > boats", or even apparently made any special local
> > regulations, this event does not seem to pose
> > sufficient hazard to warrant this action.The local
> > commander may also utillize private vessels placed
> > at the disposition of the CG by members of the CG
> > Auxiliary to patrol the course to promote safety,
> > effect rescues and direct traffic. Again, this
> > legally available action was not taken. In this
> > case, the vessels have no authority to enforce
> > special local regulations.So where do the captains
> > of the "safety boats" stand? They have no
> > enforcement authority. What liability do they
> > have? They are there at the direction of the CG to
> > provide "safety". If - God forbid - something
> > tragic were to happen, do you think the CG will
> > stand up to defend them?The more I read the law, the
> > more I believe that imposing a requirement for
> > "safety boats" upon an organizer is an illegal
> > request.Bob----- Original Message -----From: sandy
> > sobanski Date: Tuesday, September 4, 2007 5:16
> > pmSubject: Re: NYCkayaker 5 Boro: Now we need four
> > motor boatsTo: Erik Baard , nyckayaker > So....Is
> > there some real rules out there? Or-do they just
> > make > the number of motorboats to escort stuff up
> > as they go along? > What is the story? Is there
> > some basis to it?> > Erik Baard wrote: Hi All,> >
> > Carter Craft of the Metropolitan Waterfront Alliance
> > has kindly > taken up the dialogue. I did question
> > the officer who > communicated this order about the
> > thought process underlying it. > His answers were
> > unsatisfactory. I also noted that the potential >
> > pool of volunteer motorboaters was smaller than
> > usual due to a > concurrent Manhattan Island
> > Foundation swim event. Motors boats > should be a
> > higher priority for the swim event. Unfortunately he
> > > became angry and a bit foul, unlike his
> > predecessor, who was a > reasonable gentleman and a
> > partner to kayaking efforts.> > We'll work it
> > through though. And maybe he was having a bad >
> > morning? One compromise might be to have one boat on
> > the Harlem > River and three for the crossing of the
> > Upper Bay. > > The CG must know that its safety
> > mission will be compromised if > by imposing
> > unreasonable demands it drives the kayak community's
> > > group outings underground, or under water, as it
> > were. :)> > Salty regards,> > Erik> > Erik
> > Baard> > http://www.licboathouse.org>
> > http://www.naturecalendar.com> > > > > --------
> > Original Message --------> Subject: Re: NYCkayaker 5
> > Boro: Now we need four motor boats> From:
> > bob1may at optonline.net> Date: Tue, September 04, 2007
> > 3:42 pm> To: nyckayaker > > I think a dialog with
> > the CG needs to be established on this.> > >From my
> > quick reading of the CFR, I don't see "safety boats"
> > > mentioned. To me this seems like an arbitrary
> > requirement that > is outside the CG's power to
> > actually require.> > The CG may establish "special
> > local regulations" required to > "insure the safety
> > of life" during the event. It is not clear > how
> > any number of private boats, with no regulatory or >
> > enforcement power is to do this.> > The CG may
> > assign active CG vessels to patrol the event, or CG
> > > auxiliary vessels, or private vessels provided by
> > the event > organizer - in which case a CG officer
> > must be assigne! d to > each vessel.> > So, at the
> > very least I think you need to respond "Ok, we'll >
> > supply safety vessels. Where do we pick-up the
> > officers that > you are required to provide per 33
> > CFR 100.40(b)?"> > Bob> > ----- Original Message
> > -----> From: Erik Baard > Date: Tuesday, September
> > 4, 2007 1:41 pm> Subject: NYCkayaker 5 Boro: Now we
> > need four motor boats> To: nyckayaker > > > > > >
> > Ahoy'all,> > Now the CG wants four safety boats.
> > Consider this an SOS. This > sudden jump to a
> > requirement of four boats, with a possibility > of a
> > second, is a huge logistical challenge (and yes, I
> > agree > with many of you who will say it's overkill)
> > will stretch us. > Let's meet the challenge!> >
> > Erik > > Erik Baard> > http://www.licboathouse.org>
> > http://www.naturecalendar.com> >
> > ---------------------------------> >
> >
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