NYCkayaker Blacklisted

[David Gottlieb]

Erik,

Please calm down. It was an attempt at sarcastic humor, not pedantic
illusionism. Sorry to offend you....

But you should be more offended at the many accounts of egregious safety
concerns that have been brought up in this discussion by many of the people
who have taken part in these swims, and not be insulted by my clumsy
rhetoric.  We all have our moral high ground.... I hate it when a group of
people are taken advantage of. In this case it seems that the kayakers have
been treated as second-class citizens at times despite their dedicated
volunteerism, despite putting themselves in danger at times during these
swims, despite getting up early and travelling and sitting in kayaks for
hours. We all have a right to expect a well thought out event and one that
is prepared for any circumstances, and yes, one that equally acknowledges
everyone who had a hand in making the event successful.

Erik, you are always pushing for one cause or another on this thread.
Perhaps it is time to listen to other people¹s concerns. And I don¹t mean
any insult by this. You have worked hard with your club and nature calendar
and I applaud you. Now is the time to help to try and make these swims
better, but by accepting the current terms as they are, perhaps we are just
encouraging more egregious behavior and blatant disrespect.... Unfortunately
it appears there is a lot of bad will out there among paddlers concerning
the state of some swims; and I hate to see the kayaking community divided
over this issue. 

Many kayakers, like myself, love supporting the swims. I love it when my
swimmer comes in at the finish line and I know that I had a part in guiding
that athlete and aiding in a worthy cause. But why should I support an event
that has not addressed some of the egregious problems and the outright
disrespect that seems to have occurred. I would like to see solutions to
this problem, not fights on this thread

Anyway, I knew I shouldn¹t write on this topic anymore, but I broke my
pledge to myself and just couldn¹t resist....

Oh well....

Anyway Erik, I wish you and everyone else on this thread a wonderful and
safe Independence Day.

Happy Paddling....

David


On 7/3/08 7:11 PM, "Erik Baard" <erikbaard at gmail.com> wrote:

> David, you lost me at scab, or at least your pedantic allusion to the word.
>  
> Seriously, this pissed me off more than anything Morty has ever said to me:
>  
> "Do you know what they call people who cross union lines? I'm sure you do."
>  
> I'll be generous and categorize that as verbal clumsiness rather than a
> ham-handed attempt at intimidation. Don't make me reach into my pockets for
> that generosity again though.
>  
> If people want to leap to extremes and have a boycott, I'll consider it over
> the winter. But the reasons had better exceed rudeness and trivia -- show me
> unique and egregious safety problems. That will give MIF plenty of time to
> come to terms, cancel, or explain to authorities and swimmers why the
> volunteer pool for this vital safety and logistics component dried up. To do
> it now, at the height of the season, would be impetuously destructive.
>  
> Erik 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 6:37 PM, David Gottlieb <peekamoose at optonline.net>
> wrote:
>> Eric,
>> I really believe kayakers need to be united on this. With all the problems
>> cited a boycott on MIMS swims may seem to be in order. I like the swims, but
>> we have to be treated with the respect our skills and commitment deserve.
>> Maybe the swimmers, who are all decent, will also try to revamp the
>> organization. To not participate in an event that some have said is fraught
>> with potential negligence and discourteous behavior to volunteer kayakers is
>> not being selfish. It is trying to improve conditions for everyone. I think
>> kayakers need to be united in this. Do you know what they call people who
>> cross union lines? I'm sure you do.
>> 
>> I would rather see some negotiations. I sent a post on how swims can be done
>> correctly. It seems that other organizations have it together. Perhaps we
>> can force MIMs to change if kayakers don't show up to support.
>> 
>> Just some thoughts....
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/3/08 3:44 PM, "Erik Baard" <erikbaard at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> > Oy. Bad move if this is what unfolded for those motivations. I re-read
>>> your
>>> > comments and find nothing in them to warrant banishment from the MIMS.
>>> >
>>> > I am registered with a single, but will happily take you on in a tandem.
>>> You
>>> > have until the morning of the event to inform me if you'd like to take
>>> that
>>> > chance. I know my service to MIMS would only be augmented by having you as
a
>>> > partner. If they want to turn us both away, then that's their decision and
>>> > they'll lose a supporter who has taken a few verbal beatings from fellow
>>> > kayakers for holding fast.
>>> >
>>> > This is all so insane when these events are celebrations and calls to
>>> renew
>>> > our bonds to the harbor community.
>>> >
>>> > I truly hope we can patch things up for the moment, and work things out at
a
>>> > deeper level by next year. I want us to be on the same side so badly --
>>> our
>>> > shared goals and challenges are so enormous.
>>> >
>>> > Erik
>>> >
>>> > http://www.naturecalendar.com <http://www.naturecalendar.com/>
>>> > http://www.licboathouse.org <http://www.licboathouse.org/>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Peter Riley <priley at amnh.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>>> >> Fellow kayakers
>>>> >> any one who is on this list is probably aware of a thread concerning one
>>>> >> of the swim organizations who sponsors the annual Manhattan Island
>>>> >> Marathon Swim around Manhattan. This thread has addressed certain
>>>> >> shortcomings by the organizers and has engendered a healthy back and
>>>> >> forth; a candid exchange of views. Apparently these views have been too
>>>> >> much for the organizers. This afternoon I received a call from the
>>>> >> organizer informing me my services will not be needed for the race. When
>>>> >> I told him I was committed to a particular relay group; I was told they
>>>> >> had lots of kayakers.
>>>> >> I too am on that not so short list of former kayak coordinators for this
>>>> >> organization and have heard all the promises and decided in spite of
>>>> >> this to do  one more race but criticism is apparently not welcome. I
>>>> >> agree getting people out on or in the waters surrounding this city are a
>>>> >> worthy goal and I applaud MIF for their efforts in this regard; but
>>>> >> ignoring the legitimate requests of those who provide safety related
>>>> >> support to the swimmers and taking us for granted (we have lots of
>>>> >> kayakers) is beyond the pale.
>>>> >> see you out there
>>>> >> Peter Riley
>>>> >>
>>>> >> **********************************************************************
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>>> >
>>> >
>> 
>> 
> 
>