NYCkayaker Runoff Beach Re: advice on Hell Gate at max flood

Mon Jun 23 09:18:34 EDT 2008

State parks have long prohibited any kind of boat landing unless some 
specific provision has been made to allow it such as an official boat ramp. 
I don't know why specifically this has been so, but it is not a national 
security issue; the restriction may date back to before Bin Laden was born.

BTW, I would not quarrel with security concerns in a target rich environment 
like New York Harbor.  Kayaks happen to have great stealth potential because 
of low radar detection and quiet operation; and they can pack a wallop in 
terms of explosives.  In WW II they were used in some famous operations to 
destroy shipping in both war theatres.  According to various reliable 
sources their last known use was in Desert Storm when special forces used 
them on the Tigris and Euphrates for clandestine operations.

I am aware from sales records prior to 1990 for Klepper folding kayaks that 
Iran and Iraq were sizable importers of them (if my memory serves me 
correctly they ranked around fifth or sixth).  Some 20 countries train their 
special forces in use of these crafts, including our own.  Down on a wall in 
my den, I have a Certificate of Appreciation from the Special Forces 
Underwater Operations command in Florida that they gave me along with a 
general invitation to visit with them.  They use both my Complete Folding 
Kayaker book and newsletter (now no longer being published) in their 
training.

ralph diaz
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William" <haawill at yahoo.com>
To: <nyckayaker at rockandwater.net>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 1:30 AM
Subject: NYCkayaker Runoff Beach Re: advice on Hell Gate at max flood

> This is so silly , really ... why won't they let self powered boats land 
> on the beach? Is it a swimming beach? Have sea turtles laid their eggs 
> there? Are they afraid of someone drowning?  or is it, God forbid, 
> wanting to prevent the possibility that enemies of the state might land 
> their espionage agents? Speaking of which, how many billions of dollars, 
> wasted man hours, (OK I know women's hours are being wasted as well) and 
> loss of citizens privacy , not to mention  people's shoes at airports, has 
> the ever escalating "we're doing this for your own good" mentality brought 
> us to? Look at where England's gone and the number of spy, I mean , public 
> safety, cameras are mounted on just about every street corner , not to 
> mention our own country's un warrented (no court order) wire taps on ANY 
> one's phone ... crap! Are those eyes I see on my screen?
> .......
> Ahhhh ... much better ... now I can sleep peacefully tonight knowing I've 
> vented ... I mean, stood up for civil liberties ...
> Will / NJ
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 6/22/08, rob buchanan <robbuc at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> From: rob buchanan <robbuc at aol.com>
>> Subject: Re: NYCkayaker advice on Hell Gate at max flood
>> To: nycmhandy at yahoo.com, "nykayak" <nyckayaker at rockandwater.net>
>> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 7:32 AM
>> There are two beaches just south of the Manhattan bridge in
>> dumbo cove--a
>> big cobble beach that's in the city park, and a little
>> sandy one that's in
>> the state park (empire-fulton ferry state park). If it was
>> a state parks
>> person who chased you off, then you were landing on the
>> sandy one, I think.
>>
>> Here's a link to an aerial photo of both--the dividing
>> line between the two
>> parks runs right off the left-hand edge of the big red
>> brick warehouse,
>> empire stores, behind the sandy beach:
>>
>> http://www.newyorkharborbeaches.org/image/beach12img01.jpg
>>
>> Everything to the left of that line is city park and you
>> can normally land
>> there without hassle, even though it's not yet an
>> 'official' launch or
>> landing. Besides the cobble beach (which can be rough on
>> boats) there's a
>> sandy beach to the north, directly under the manhattan
>> bridge (watch out for
>> a rocky reef back there, not visible at high tide).
>>
>> The state parks rule seems to extend to all the other state
>> parks on the
>> east river, in williamsburg and long island city. Rachel
>> Gordon, the head of
>> the nyc region for state parks, has heard from boaters
>> before about this,
>> but I think more notes and letters (civilly phrased, of
>> course) could only
>> be a good thing.
>>
>> Rachel Gordon: Rachel.Gordon at oprhp.state.ny.us
>>
>>
>> Rob Buchanan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/21/08 8:29 PM, "mark handy"
>> <nycmhandy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Thank you to the eight people who responded to my
>> request for circumnav
>> > advice. I blended your very helpful information
>> together and came up with a
>> > plan that worked well. The ideal conditions today
>> helped, too, of course.
>> > I've never seen the Battery so calm.
>> >
>> > We got chased off the little beach just south of the
>> Manhattan Bridge by a NYS
>> > Parks officer.  I had heard of that prohibition at
>> some point, but there were
>> > no signs and I had forgotten what I heard.  It seems
>> like a wrongheaded rule.
>> > Anybody know the rationale, or to whom I should
>> complain? There is a similar
>> > beach just north of the bridge. Is that one legal?
>> >
>> > Hello to whomever I waved to at the yellow sit-on-tops
>> in LIC.
>> >
>> > The trip took us six hours.  I don't understand
>> how people can do it in under
>> > four. We had a total of maybe one hour of rests, on
>> land and on water, so
>> > scratch all of them and we had five hours of paddling.
>> We didn't work all that
>> > hard, except on the Harlem, so maybe subtract half an
>> hour for pushing hard
>> > all the way.  Then the remaining 45-minute reduction
>> comes from where?  Pure
>> > muscle?  Fast boats?  Clockwise instead of
>> counterclockwise?
>> >
>> > Thank you again. See you on the river.
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
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>> **********************************************************************
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>
>
> **********************************************************************
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> public service offered to the kayaking community by the Hudson River 
> Watertrail Association. Learn more about HRWA at www.hrwa.org
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