[NYCkayaker] {NYCWTA} Re: (no subject)

Erik Baard erikbaard@gmail.com
Tue Jul 2 15:38:24 EDT 2013


Oy. I pointed out some of these facts (not revealing names, like SW's) to
the editor and got this reply:

"You are a clueless kayaker with that agenda in mind and don't know jack
shit about the history of NY Waterway****

** **

do not email again"


The website is produced by Steven Greer, MD.


And so it goes...


Erik


On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Erik Baard <erikbaard@gmail.com> wrote:

> Amusingly enough, my two comments on the blog in question were censored
> because the publisher felt this statement (ellipsesare the editor's) was
> factually inaccurate:
>
> <<Re the editor’s follow-up note: If anything, chatter…..complained in
> recent years that the company was particularly negligent in its use of
> horns….More recently, the company has received praise for courtesy and
> compliance with maritime law for safety on the water — horn use included.>>
>
> My note regarding recent praise was referring to Susan Windle's comment on
> the NYC Kayaker list in June and other conversations I've had.  My
> statement about years of criticism of ferry operators for not sounding
> horns as legally required (among other issues) is evidently an ongoing
> concern. The editor has apparently adopted the position of the letter
> writer.
>
> I don't envy the position of ferry operators who must contend with the
> quality of life objections of more populous waterfront residents, who are
> often their customers, at the same time that safety conscious boaters
> object to lapses in meeting legal requirements to sound horns. Today we've
> read simultaneous complaints that horns are sounded too often and too
> seldom.
>
> Louis is right about the required interval too --- I routinely use the
> marine radio and check for the engine-churned stern plume to  ensure safe
> passage because that prior notice is lacking.
>
> Anyway, back to work...
>
> Erik
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Louis Kleinman <
> lkleinman@waterfrontalliance.org> wrote:
>
>>  Just to add a small point:****
>>
>> It is the law and the law is supposed to be enforced by the CG.****
>>
>> (I think also by NYC Water PD but am not sure)****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> There is a reason for the law and it makes sense.****
>>
>> Whoever doesn’t understand the real danger probably has never been in a
>> small boat (no matter HP or Sail) in the Harbor and just doesn’t have a
>> grasp as to the conditions.  In fact I don’t quite understand why such
>> people are even subscribed in this blog – But that is another matter.****
>>
>> There are other things that could be said about those who want the River
>> proximities & views but not the harbor/waterways inherent activities with
>> it’s attendant sonic intrusions, but I leave what I am thinking to your
>> imaginations.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> And by the way:  Horn blowing on emerging is too late. It should be done
>> at least 1 minute before leaving and again as leaving.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> * *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* nyc-water-trail@googlegroups.com [mailto:
>> nyc-water-trail@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *rob buchanan
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 02, 2013 2:12 PM
>> *To:* rob@rwharris.com
>> *Cc:* nyckayaker; nycwatertrail
>>
>> *Subject:* {NYCWTA} Re: [NYCkayaker] (no subject)****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I couldn't disagree more, and can count many, many situations I've
>> observed firsthand, including two this season, when ferry operators have
>> pulled out without warning and created a dangerous situation for other
>> boaters. It's not just kayakers or rowers, either, but any kind of vessel
>> that may be passing. And it's not just about sounding the horn--it's also
>> about keeping a proper lookout on the stern of the vessel as it pulls out.
>> Both things are rightfully required under the nautical rules of the road
>> and both are routinely ignored in this harbor. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> As a case in point, I'd draw your attention to the ferry dock at Fulton
>> Landing, where two and sometimes three ferries dock at once. If you're
>> passing in a small boat, you really have no idea when one of
>> them--particularly one hidden behind another--might pull out. Two weeks ago
>> I was in a rowing gig and steering wide to avoid the place but at the same
>> time trying to stay out of the way of a barge in the shipping channel. It
>> was flooding hard so holding our position wasn't a good option;
>> furthermore, with two boats on the dock and more arriving, it could have
>> been a very long wait. As we pulled past the Peter Weiss, a Waterways
>> ferry, shot out from behind the other ferry, spun towards us and hit the
>> throttle, and only then spotted us. No whistle, no lookout, and way too
>> close for comfort.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Whatever you think of the mayor's waterfront development agenda, it's
>> happening--and therefore it's likely that we're going to see a lot more
>> ferry traffic in the future. More recreationals too. Unless you have a
>> better system in mind, now seems like a good time to start observing the
>> rules of the road.  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Rob Buchanan, Village Community Boathouse****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Robert Harris <rob@rwharris.com> wrote:*
>> ***
>>
>> I take the ferry pretty regularly and have seen one kayaker near a boat
>> in the 2 years I have been doing this.  that guy was stupid enough to try
>> to cut behind the ferry at a dock rather than wait the 30 seconds that they
>> sit there.
>>
>> If the reason they now blow those fog horns is because kayakers can't
>> understand that the ferry might pull out and can't wait a few seconds then
>> I agree that these horns are annoying noise pollution and hope they stop
>> the horns ASAP.
>>
>> I am 100% sympathetic to people who have to hear this every 10 minutes so
>> that one or 2 kayakers a day or a week have to be warned that the noisy
>> huge boat may pull out.  which they should know already.  they rev the
>> engines to stay at the dock then they shift to reverse to leave.  you can
>> hear the
>> sounds and see the boat balance shift.
>> I mean, really, do people in kayaks not know that the ferries might pull
>> out?  I hardly think this is a maritime safety issue.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 11:36:31 -0400
>> From: Nancy Brous <nbrous@gmail.com>
>> To: nyc watertrail list <nyc-water-trail@googlegroups.com>,
>>         "nyckayaker**" <nyckayaker@rockandwater.net>,
>>  Pier63holdtrips
>>         <pier63holdtrips@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: [NYCkayaker] Fwd: ferry horn blowback
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAOwVst5UiVJ608ZELTv5a7BudpC1YcsA7Xk8PmZv=
>> PnrpKtHLw@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> I am outraged that people can be this selfish, expecting ferries to
>> flout safety regulations so they can live with a waterfront view but
>> not be "disturbed" by the sounds of a waterfront.  Why should ferry
>> captains, passengers, and other mariners be put in danger so these
>> privileged people with the waterfront luxury apartments can sleep in?
>>
>> I encourage all who are concerned about maritime safety to comment
>> here, and i'm not on facebook but it seems you may be able to make
>> some noise (pun intended) there as well.
>>
>>
>> http://www.batterypark.tv/featured-residents/letter-help-stop-the-ferry-boat-horns.html
>>
>>
>>
>> **********************************************************************
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>
>
>
> --
> Erik Baard
> The 2011 Greenest New Yorker<http://thebeat.iloveny.com/i-love-new-york-announces-the-2011-greenest-nyer-3604.html>
> !
>
> LEARNING ADVENTURE BOATING!
> Founder, HarborLAB
> http://www.facebook.com/HarborLAB
>
> FREE APPLE TREES!
> Founder, Newtown Pippin Restoration and Celebration
> www.newtownpippin.org
>
> FREE KAYAKING!
> Founder, LIC Community Boathouse
> www.licboathouse.org
>
> Your Urban Wilderness Community:
> www.naturecalendar.com
>



-- 
Erik Baard
The 2011 Greenest New
Yorker<http://thebeat.iloveny.com/i-love-new-york-announces-the-2011-greenest-nyer-3604.html>
!

LEARNING ADVENTURE BOATING!
Founder, HarborLAB
http://www.facebook.com/HarborLAB

FREE APPLE TREES!
Founder, Newtown Pippin Restoration and Celebration
www.newtownpippin.org

FREE KAYAKING!
Founder, LIC Community Boathouse
www.licboathouse.org

Your Urban Wilderness Community:
www.naturecalendar.com



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